03 - Sophie Martin

Featuring Sophie Martin from Page.  

Join us as we chat about all things building science, from the LEED rating system to how to design a sustainable building from its inception. 

Resources mentioned:

1. The Building Science Podcast - podcast 
2. Cowspiracy - documentary 
3. Seaspiracy - documentary (on Netflix, need subscription)
4. Dark Waters - film
5. All We Can Save edited by Ayana Elizabeth Johnson and Katharine K. Wilkinson - book of essays and poetry

Transcript

[00:00:00] Kiersten: Welcome back to the Green Collar Pod. We're here today with Sophie Martin. And I think we'll just jump right in and get started by asking you, Sophie, we'd love to hear about your journey in terms of your education, internships and roles you've had up through the role you have now.

So can you tell us a little bit more about that journey?

[00:00:19] Sophie: So I work as a building performance analyst at an architecture engineering firm that is called Page. In downtown Washington, D. C. I met Kiersten at George Washington University. We're both studying engineering together, but I was studying civil engineering and I did a minor in concentration in sustainability. Sustainability has really been my passion since the very beginning. So I knew that whatever career that I was going to take, I wanted that to be a part of it. I got my first job out of school, with a firm that is focused on building enclosure consulting. I had some internships during undergrad.

One was with a contractor and a couple with more architecture focused , A/E focused firms and I really felt like I wanted to be more a part of the design team and more a part of, the making process rather than being on the contractor side where it's just the building portion. So I got my first full time job after school at this firm.

It's called Wiss, Janney, Elstner and we really dove into when I say, building enclosure consulting thinking everything with envelope of the building. So, walls, roof, foundation, floor, thinking your air control layer, your water control layer, your air weather barrier, all of these parts and pieces of making that building air tight, water tight, thermally insulated, all of these things to support a high performance building. I enjoyed this role because over time, I came to realize that though my role didn't have the term sustainability in it, a well built, durable high performance building is inherently the most sustainable one.

You know, if we do it right the 1st time, it's going to last longer and therefore it is inherently going to be the more sustainable option there. So I learned a lot, of really technical concepts related to, building envelope and I was lucky enough to have time, both doing office work with our design reviews, but also time on site in construction viewing how things are built and I really enjoyed that and really learned a lot from that. And Then I transitioned from there to a roll at Page on what is called our building sciences team. At Page we split our time into half, sustainability certifications, like LEED if you haven't heard of it, it's L. E. E. D. Take a look.

That's a huge, green building certification rating system. That's widely used across the industry across the country. and then the other half of my time is spent on building performance analysis work. I work on life cycle assessments to evaluate the embodied carbon of a building, and I can dive into that a little bit more if you guys are interested, but high level it's, what are the carbon emissions associated with each stage of manufacturing, procuring materials, shipping them to the site, using them on your building. So, what is the embodied impact of your building? And then I spend my time also doing thermal analysis for building envelope systems. Those are probably the main ones, but I also do some daylight analysis, some energy modeling, looking at building energy efficiency, we do a whole wide variety of things, but that's my professional journey from what I studied in school and then where I am now. I guess I should mention to that along the way I did pursue my LEED AP, which again, that keyword led LEED, you can get different accreditations and such and that was 1 that I pursued well as my, Passive house title, so the certified passive house consultant, that's a really neat different rating system for buildings.

[00:04:14] Aparna: Thanks for sharing. Sophie lot of different turns on the path to get where you are right now and

[00:04:19] Sophie: Yeah,

[00:04:20] Aparna: you're really solid foundation that you've built for yourself over the years.

[00:04:23] Sophie: Yeah, it wasn't necessarily the path that I even had in mind too, but it just ebbs and flows. 

[00:04:27] Aparna: Go where the currents take you.

[00:04:28] Sophie: Exactly.

[00:04:30] Aparna: So I am curious, you said that you always had a passion for sustainability and it was always a driving factor. So Was there a defining moment that really made you come to realize this or was it something that you picked up along the way?

[00:04:43] Sophie: Yeah, I was thinking back and it's really during high school. I took a class in environmental science, and I just had a fantastic teacher he was really, really great with the students at my school and were doing projects where we were testing the water quality in the pond down the road; we took a field trip to the Jersey shore and we were counting shorebirds learning about their migration patterns and how their populations change over time and h e just really instilled in us the importance of being a steward for the environment . So, it was really since high school. Like, I knew, okay, I'm going to go into college. There's like, a million options, but I knew that at the end of the day, I wanted there to be a sustainable piece to what I ended up doing. So, yeah, it's definitely been on my mind since the very 1st day where I started thinking about career options. 

[00:05:31] Kiersten: Feel free to give that teacher a shout out if you want before I ask the next question.

[00:05:36] Sophie: Yeah! Mr. Smith, Haddonfield High School, thank you for being who you are, he inspires so many of his students, so I'm really lucky to have had him on my path.

[00:05:46] Kiersten: Thanks from us too. And actually it feeds really nicely into one of the through lines of this podcast is the idea that any job can be a green job if you kind of bring that passion to it. So it sounds like Mr. Smith was an amazing example of not only being an educator, but being an educator with the mission to share with his students, as you said, that it's incredibly important to be good environmental stewards.

I'm curious if you have any thoughts though, on that topic of any job can be a green job and, and ways that folks can achieve that.

[00:06:15] Sophie: Yes, I think if you work for a company that purchases literally anything, you there have the opportunity to make an impact and really focus on you know, what are you purchasing? Where is it coming from? Are you prioritizing more sustainable options for those things that you're purchasing for your job?

So like very base level, if anything, I feel like that's a really good starting place. Do you sit in an office? Do they recycle? Like, there's just small gateways that you can get into there. I do really feel that no matter wherever you are there is a way to at least use your voice to ask the right questions. Even if it's not about your company's practices, even if it's, you know, are you working with clients? Is there any sort of platform that you can use to use your voice to make the impact that you want to see. 

[00:07:02] Aparna: Also thinking about using your voice, speaking out, we wanted to give some space. Are there any misconceptions about sustainability in the built environment or in building science that you would want to address?

[00:07:15] Sophie: Yeah, definitely. If you are familiar with LEED there are definitely some initial thoughts that folks with experience in the industry will have hearing that terminology because the way it works is it's a rating system where your building can earn points for the different sustainable attributes of the building, for example, do you have native plants on your site?

What is your indoor water use savings? Are you locating your building in a place where it is already dense location where, you're putting your building occupants in a place where that they can walk or bike to surrounding amenities? LEED has evolved a lot over the years, but there has become a misconception that it's like, it's just LEED.

It's just do you have bike racks in your building? You know, it's, just a box to check. It's not really much of anything. And I think that it can become that. Absolutely. It can be that. But, I do feel grateful for the way that LEED has brought sustainability into the conversations.

We would not have it there before. And I think that it is the responsibility of the design team to use the LEED rating system, when that's a project requirement, basically to be a driver in that conversation of impacting real change and bringing things up with the design team at a time in the project where there is room for impact rather than using as a box checking exercise after everything that's been done. I think it's really, you're given that platform when you have a project that is meant to be LEED certified. And it's just whether you're properly integrating it into your project. 

And then the second one I was going to say is that my role in building enclosure consulting, I think you wouldn't hear that title and think that that would be a green job or a sustainable job. But to me, like, I mentioned, a durable, well designed, high performing building is inherently a sustainable one. So to me, I think it's, yeah, it's being really open minded when you're looking for a career in sustainability in the built environment or wherever, just being really open minded to choosing a career path that aligns with creating product is going to come out of your work, whether tangible or not one that is going to support creating an environment that is to be sustainable for future generations, basically.

[00:09:45] Kiersten: Those are two really great misconceptions. your second one touches on another part of the podcast is sort of the driving force here is it's hard to know exactly what what's really achieving a sustainable aim before you're in the industry a lot of the time. So thank you for being here today.

Cause that's part of our mission is expanding upon what a job title means at different firms. And of course that can vary. People can have the same job title and very different responsibilities. So hopefully this becomes a tool where people can hear a little bit more about what you do as a building enclosure engineer or what someone else does as a building scientist and know that that could be a green job. I also love that you talked about LEED doing a good job of evolving for those in the industry, if they're curious, or if they don't know, LEED V5 comes out this year, so it has continued different versions, version five being released in 2025. So a little bit of industry news. I had also heard some of that regarding which rating systems are kind of pushing the envelope the most and previous iterations of LEED had maybe fallen a bit behind the times, but now they're right back with it and doing it again. So

[00:10:51] Sophie: Yeah, I'm excited to see them focus more on performance based standards focused on testing and verification and just overall building performance from a more holistic place I've reviewed some of the initial V5 drafts that have come out and I, I feel optimistic about what they're going to publish.

[00:11:09] Kiersten: That's fantastic. I'm curious Sophie, what you think about the intersection of building science and sustainability, how it's going to evolve to be a part of the economy of tomorrow. So LEED is evolving. Expectations are evolving. But more generally, how does your role kind of contribute to that evolution?

[00:11:28] Sophie: I think circular economy is a huge buzzword that I'm sure anyone in, in this sustainability sphere is hearing more and more about. How can we use what we have instead of creating new and sending things to landfill, creating waste, how can we just keep things using what we have, so I'm really excited to see two products in the buildings industry that we can reuse materials in our building products.

I think one big one is with concrete using reused materials in our concrete. For example, fly ash, of course, and slag is a big one byproducts from the manufacturing industry and being able to use those, as inputs into our concrete mixes in replacement of cement, is a really, strong way that we can reduce the embodied carbon impact of our buildings by leaning on use of resources that are already created instead of, putting more resources into something, creating something new. Yeah, I'm really excited to see all of these new building products and innovations and all this research going on into ways that we can reuse materials that are already existing.

Bamboo is another building material that I'm excited about because it's completely regenerative. It's not perfect because if we're using this in the United States, we are needing to ship it from across the world. But that's another really exciting building material to think about because it's not like a tree. We chop it down and it's gone, it comes right back. 

[00:13:01] Aparna: I think it's always interesting to see where folks minds go with this question, right? Like, you're imagining the future, you're imagining things that you want to see in practice that maybe you've read about, you've heard about, had conversations about. So, yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head, Sophie.

[00:13:15] Sophie: Yeah, yeah, and I mean, reusing existing buildings a whole, instead of bringing them down and building new and again, going back to building sciences and building enclosure review is like - do it right the first time and then you can build a building that's going to last for a hundred years instead of so many that we're building today that are meant to last 20 years and then just be torn down and redeveloped.

So, it's just using existing resources and being creative in that and leaning on some of the research and innovation to us to the place that we need to be where we're not just burning through our resources.

[00:13:49] Aparna: My last job was in historic preservation, so really got to learn a lot about how you keep existing structures, shore them up for the next like 50 to 100 years, right? Like, you give them the tools, resources they need

[00:14:02] Sophie: Yeah,

[00:14:02] Aparna: still be functioning, and have the general public still enjoy their experience within the space.

So.

[00:14:09] Sophie: Yeah!

[00:14:09] Aparna: Yeah, I very much resonate with what you're saying.

[00:14:11] Sophie: Historic preservation is a really, really neat field. I work on some existing buildings, of course, but would love to learn more about.

So, I'm curious. We've talked a lot about what you do. We've talked about some of the certifications and skills that you have. So, LEED AP, passive house... and I'm curious if we were talking to someone who wants to do what you do, they want to work at Page, they want to really get into the weeds of building science. What would you say are other skills, other certifications that might be important for them?

Starting off a good gateway to entry, I think, is taking your LEED Green Associate exam. It's just the 1st step to getting your LEED credential and you can take it as a college student. You don't need any work experience and it's a good way to learn about different facets of sustainability related to a building.

And it looks good when it's on your resume as well. When you have employees, they're often looking for that keyword. If you're, you're looking in the building sustainability sphere. I also think networking, getting to know professionals in the industry is really the best way to dip your toe in. I think your time is much better spent making a connection at an event following up with an email, getting to know someone, chatting with them rather than sending your resume into the abyss over and over, 'cause those resumes often very often get lost. So yeah, I think it's really just networking getting to know industry professionals consider your LEED green associate exam. Those are a couple of good ways to start.

[00:15:40] Kiersten: Those are great suggestions. So in addition to taking their LEED green associate exam, networking, I'm curious if you have any recommendations for our listeners about how they can get involved in your world- structural engineering, building envelope, engineering consulting, are there any organizations that you would recommend or other resources?

[00:16:01] Sophie: Yeah. There are a lot of different professional organizations that you can get involved in. I'm involved in a couple of committees under the DC chapter of AIA, which is the American Institute of Architects. They have a bunch of committees. I'm on the building enclosure council and I'm also involved a bit in the Committee on the Environment. It's just a great way to meet professionals, go to their events. I mean, you can be a student and you can go to these events. So that, I mean, that's a really great way that I have made connections in this industry.

I've also been involved in Engineers Without Borders. And I've made some good connections through that network as well, because it's a lot of civil engineers, architects, that are involved in that organization. Yeah, those are a few ways that you can get involved. And I know you both are very involved in those professional organizations as well. So I'm sure that your listeners can reach out to you, if they want to, get involved. 

[00:16:59] Aparna: It's always good to hear what other folks are interested in and involved in in the city. as you can tell the three of us on this podcast, like to talk and we will talk to just about anybody. So ... 

[00:17:08] Sophie: Anytime I have a college student or any one emerging professional in the industry that wants to chat, I'm like, "yep, let's do it." Mentorship I've gotten over the years so always open for that!

[00:17:18] Aparna: Love that. So on that topic, then if folks are reaching out to you, are there books, documentaries, other resources that you typically offer up as good places to get started or learn more? 

[00:17:29] Sophie: To learn more specifically about what I do in my field, there is a, I think it's called the building science podcast. Yes, look that up. That's, that's a really, a really neat and interesting one.

 I have some documentaries I've seen that have just like gotten me more interested in sustainability on a personal level. I'm not sure if you guys have seen of like Cowspiracy and Seaspiracy. Dark Waters is a really really interesting one about that the ways that certain manufacturing processes have really impacted people that live near those plants and, ability to set their water on fire, which is really, really terrible.

And it's, it's really interesting to see how they expose some manufacturers in this documentary. Those are probably the main ones. I have a book right next to me that I just started reading and it's called All We Can Save and it's really quite good so far.

Ayana Elizabeth Johnson is one of the authors and she spoke at a LEED green building conference last year and I thought she was fantastic. It's good so far.

[00:18:25] Kiersten: Those are great recommendations. Anybody who works in sustainability will tell you a lot about sustainability is recognizing that things are interconnected, right? So we're happy to take recommendations that aren't specific to your industry, but that kind of sparked that greater interest. Our last question is maybe the most fun, but imagine that you are a celestial sustainability being for a day.

So you have all the power in the world. What is a major global policy that you would want to implement to accelerate energy and sustainability transitions?

[00:18:59] Sophie: This is a hard question for me. I mean, there's a lot of really good policies out there and it doesn't feel like there's a going to be a one size fits all answer that's just going to to get us there. I mean, this is not a global policy, but something that I am excited about that is happening in some major cities in the United States is the building energy performance standards that are, driving building owners reduce their building energy use. So that applies to existing buildings and new buildings as well. That's huge because it's, it's no longer an optional thing. It's now mandatory. So, I mean, I think on a global scale, it's gotta be something mandatory and it's gotta be something that is going to wake up major corporations and our building owners to make some sort of change.

[00:19:47] Aparna: Appreciate your insight, Sophie, and fully agree that the Building Energy Performance Standards are a step in the right direction and while there might not be a silver bullet per se that, you know, solves all of the issues that we're facing today, it is nice to see some small incremental changes and global policy would definitely wake people up.

 So I think we've come to the end of our episode. Just wanted to say a huge thank you, Sophie, once again for sharing this time with us, answering our questions, really having an engaging discussion. I feel like I have a lot of documentaries I want to watch after this. I got a book I'm going to go to the library and check out.

[00:20:22] Sophie: Nice, yeah, nice.

[00:20:23] Aparna: And just feeling very energized to work in this space. Again, thank you so much. We look forward to continuing this conversation and checking in on how things are going in the future. 

[00:20:30] Sophie: Yeah, thank you so much for having me. It is a really great opportunity to be able to share what I know.

 I would love to hear about it.