21 - Jillian Hansen

Today we’re joined by Jillian Hansen, Market Intelligence Lead at US Solar, who shares her journey from aspiring political campaigner to renewable energy expert and distributed generation advocate. Jillian walks listeners through her evolving roles in community solar development, subscriber origination, and now market expansion, while breaking down key industry concepts like distributed generation, non-wires alternatives, and the growing role of battery energy storage. 

She reflects on the mentors and peers who shaped her path, how graduate school unlocked her passion for energy markets, and how she brings sustainability into her community through St. Paul’s Climate Action Advisory Board. Packed with technical insights, career advice, and a clear-eyed view of where solar is headed, the episode shines a light on the rapidly changing energy landscape—and the people helping shape its future. 

Connect with Jillian on LinkedIn. 

Podcasts 

• Volts
• Catalyst
• Currents (Norton Rose Fulbright)
• The Energy Gang

News & Analysis Resources

• Utility Dive
• Constellation Energy weekly market updates
• RTO Insider (subscription-based but frequently referenced)

Conferences & Industry Events

• New Project Media DG Conference
• Wood Mackenzie Distributed Generation Conference
• VERGE (broader climate & sustainability conference, part of Trellis)

Energy & Policy Concepts Mentioned

• FERC Order 2222
• PJM 
• ERCOT market structure
• Energy Markets Explainer
• Non-Wires Alternatives 101
• Distributed Generation (DG) overview

Local Sustainability

• St. Paul, MN Climate Action

Transcript

Aparna: [00:00:00] Hey everybody. Welcome back to Green Collar. Today on the show we're joined by a good friend of mine from grad school, Jillian Hansen. Jill has been on the sustainability train from the ripe age of six when she declared she'd one day save all the polar bears, and has steadily been working towards that end goal ever since. She currently works for US Solar as a market intelligence lead, and has held a slew of different roles as she grew with the company. She studied political science and global studies at the University of Minnesota Twin Cities, and received a master's of Science in Energy and Sustainability from Northwestern University, which should sound familiar if y'all are paying attention when she's not working.

Jill is usually playing soccer on one of her many rec league teams, reading books, making delicious soups, or taking her dog Bashie out on walks. Welcome to the show, Jill. We're excited to chat.

Jillian: Thank you. I'm so excited to be here.

Aparna: Yahoo. We like to start at the beginning always. So can you walk us through how your time at the University of [00:01:00] Minnesota shaped the path that led you to US Solar? We'd love to learn how that 6-year-old polar bear saving Jill started to build her career in the solar space.

Jillian: Yeah. , First of all, gotta say it. Go Gophers, , love the University of Minnesota. And honestly, I went into the University of Minnesota thinking that I wanted to work. , On campaigns and working in more of the political sphere and that being the realm in which I would. Drive climate change action, , you know, work with candidates that were really supportive of those policies.

So that's why I chose to do a political science degree. , And then I added the global studies portion of that, which was technically, I think in sustainable development. So kind of that added focus there. But I really wanted to go into to politics and then I kind of got into more of those. Campaign style courses and started working with people who were on campaigns.

One of my best friends Melissa, has been a campaign [00:02:00] manager, , for years, and as much as I had major respect for it, I kind of realized that that maybe wasn't where my skillset lied. . So I kind of had to pivot, but at that point my degree was a little too far along and so I had to kind of go, okay, I need to get my foot in the door in a sustainable career.

But I don't know that I necessarily have the exact degree. You know, it wasn't environmental science, . And the job at US Solar kind of came across my lap. , Someone saw the job posting on LinkedIn. Forwarded it my way. , It was an entry level project developer slash origination associate job, and they interviewed me and I started three days after I graduated and I've been there ever since.

, So the first job that I had at US Solar was not the one that I was like, yes, this is for sure. But it was more of a first step, and I'm forever grateful for taking that first step.

Kiersten: That's fascinating and a new job title. , I don't think I've [00:03:00] heard of the originator, so I would love it if maybe you could share a little bit more about each of the roles that you've had and what, each one kind of looked like for a day in the life.

Jillian: absolutely. So I've now been at US Solar for six and a half, almost seven years, and I've probably had four different positions. , So each of them has been quite different. Project Developer is more of your traditional renewable energy project development associate each. Solar development firm tends to do it a little bit differently.

Some break up the portions of a project developer's role in how US Solar does. It is one developers in charge of a project from signing a land lease with a landowner. These are all offsite ground mount solar facilities, signing the land lease, going and getting it permitted with the local jurisdiction.

Um, as well as handling the interconnection agreement with utilities. Those are kind of the three main functions of a project developer. And then. [00:04:00] With specifically Community Solar, which US Solar is a community solar developer, which is a specific type of front of the meter distributed generation, solar development.

There's also the added piece of the customer side. So unlike traditional rooftop solar where you have the rooftop. Customer that you're signing that facility with. So obviously they're gonna be the offtaker of that energy. With Community Solar, it's an offsite facility, so you have what are called subscribers that subscribe to the project and they receive a credit on their electricity bill for the energy produced by that project.

And then they turn around and pay us solar less than the credit they receive. And it's kind of more of a financial transaction. And it's a really unique way to get people who maybe can't do rooftop solar because. They're a renter or their house isn't positioned well for solar production. , Businesses that maybe can't make the upfront capital expenditure for doing rooftop solar can participate.

So that's what origination [00:05:00] means. , Generally in the community solar space, you might also hear origination being just the direct rooftop sales for other types of, , solar production. But in the community solar world, it tends to mean subscriber origination. , So that's what I was doing for my first role.

Some of it was project development. Some of it was originating and working with those subscribers, , getting them to sign contracts, working on negotiating. , I was driving out to rural Minnesota 'cause at the time there were some locational rules in which you had to be located near the project you'd subscribe to.

So we were driving all over the state and it was a really, really. Fun, unique way to talk to a diverse group of people who were getting involved in the renewable energy transition for various reasons. Whether it was just straight bill savings and they could care less that it was green energy, or it was motivated by green energy.

, You kind of got to talk to a whole bunch of people who wanted it for a variety of reasons and learn how to communicate.

Aparna: This is fascinating to get someone from inside the solar industry,

is great.

Jillian: That was my first role was kind of, [00:06:00] I was hired to do half and half, and then I was actually hired at the same time as another girl who was also doing half and half. And then they ended up just diverging us. So, , Michelle. Went to doing full-time development work and then I went to doing full-time origination work.

And at the time we were just in Minnesota, so all we had to do is, you know, understand the rules of how the Minnesota Community Solar program worked. And then a few months into that, we decided we were gonna expand and we were gonna go into Illinois. And at the time we didn't really understand how moving from a vertically integrated market like Minnesota to a deregulated electricity market in Illinois.

Would change a lot of how the rules would work around those subscribers. And essentially what that means is in Minnesota, I can't choose the utility that I buy power from. I get it from Xcel Energy and that's my only choice. And Illinois, [00:07:00] it's deregulated. So I as a customer still have my distribution utility as ComEd or Ameren, but I can choose my electricity supplier.

And so when you then add in community solar, there's a whole lot more. , Complications that get added. And so my role kind of shifted while I still maintained a front facing. Customer centric role. I moved into more helping us understand how that needed to change our entire subscription strategy, how we had to change our contracts to be compliant, how we had to change how we were selling.

, in Minnesota, contracts would be like 25 years long. Not everyone in Illinois used to that when they're used to signing three year retail supply contracts. So it was a whole learning curve. , And then I . Spent a few years doing that role, which was helping us expand into Illinois, helping us expand into Colorado and a variety of different other community solar markets that started popping up across , the state.

So that was my technical title was associate origination and then senior associate origination.

. , , I then [00:08:00] decided to go to grad school.

So I had a part-time role doing that work with US Solar, helping to support the origination team. And then post grad school, , is when I started my new role as the market intelligence lead at US Solar. And that role serves in almost like a similar function to that, which is helping the expansion of US solar.

That's really where I've always kind of been helping the company grow, but. Primarily focused on opportunities outside of Community Solar. So we still do have a core business in Community Solar. We love the way that community solar can support so many different types of customers. But we're also trying to expand primarily in the distributed generation space, how we can grow.

Add battery energy storage. , Take advantage of market opportunities, not just programmatic opportunities. So those that are legislatively mandated, but as there's been more integration between wholesale markets and distribution, how can we take advantage of that through policies like [00:09:00] FERC 2222? , So that has been my role to date, , for the last.

Almost a year, , has been primarily my focus is helping us expand. , So we have our traditional kind of community solar development teams. We also have what we call the special projects unit, which is what I work on, which is kind of that outside of community solar. And I help make sure the teams are in communication and that we're, we're taking advantage of all the exciting new things in the energy space.

Aparna: I love that your past roles all sound very dynamic and like a lot of different moving parts that you've always had to keep tabs on,

Jillian: Mm-hmm.

Aparna: some very detailed Excel spreadsheets.

Jillian: Very detailed. Excel spreadsheets. Yes.

Aparna: . And like you're clearly passionate about all this. So it's really, it's incredible to see how much impact you've had with helping this firm grow and how much you've obviously learned along the way as

Jillian: Mm-hmm.

Aparna: And that being said, too, thinking back to when you started grad school, backtracking one career, jump before market intelligence lead, We understand that you went into the year at Northwestern, pretty [00:10:00] interested in corporate sustainability, right? And maybe pivoting out of energy specific, so hearing what you've been able to accomplish now, I'm sure , you're very happy that you stayed , in the energy side of things, but can you talk us through how you decided to stay energy side versus going corporate sustainability? Was it coursework? Was it just the market itself

Jillian: Yeah, school's definitely impacted my career choices in ways that I did not expect it both ways. Going into my different degrees, thinking I was gonna come out one way and going the opposite or going a different way. , So take that as you will with, using school as a way to explore your career. , . I thought when I went into my master's at Northwestern that I was going to come out of it trying to go for a corporate sustainability role. , More of a in-house role at a, you know, large corporate. And I still love and appreciate that work, but it was the coursework where I feel like because US Solar.

Was [00:11:00] primarily a community solar developer when I started Community Solar is very interesting, but it is a little bit of a niche type of development, and I wasn't as exposed, especially when we were just in Minnesota when we started. I wasn't as exposed to the wholesale market concepts and really how deep and.

Interesting and kind of weird, the energy industry really is because I never had to really dig that deep. , But it kind of coincided perfectly that while I was getting all of this exposure through the coursework at Northwestern in, you know, courses about regulatory design and. Wholesale marketing. I took like a six week energy trading course.

I had never even heard of the word hedging before and I was like, this is happening. This is how our energy industry actually works. So while I was learning that in school, US solar was also. Going, oh, you know, we love community solar. We're gonna continue to do this, but maybe we should [00:12:00] start thinking about how we can adapt with the industry and take advantage of some of these new opportunities that are coming along.

And I was like, wait, I'm really interested in that stuff too, and I'm learning about it over here. Now I have an opportunity to do that in my job. it was more of an awakening of the energy nerd within me that was like, wait, I really love learning about energy and getting really deep into the weeds, and now I have an opportunity to do that at a company that's been so supportive of me.

You know, there were just so many, like the stars aligned and, , I have, , been really happy with the choice that I made. , And I get to learn. That's ultimately what motivates me. I get to learn and us solar lets me learn in this role. We're all learning kind of no one knows what's going on, which is both scary and exciting.

So, uh, it's a, it's a fun role to be in, , when you get to learn every single day.

Kiersten: Fantastic that you got to learn some new stuff in school and then immediately apply it. . Like you said, with a company that had already been so supportive. So you [00:13:00] remained engaged, and a little bit familiar with, with parts of it, perhaps in the company, but also opening to outside of the company. Have there been any mentors, , inside or outside of sustainability as well who have influenced how you approach your work?

Jillian: I have had a lot of mentors, particularly my boss, Erica, , who was , my first boss out of undergrad. And my first role at US Solar has been an amazing mentor and has really fostered this love of the company in me, in solar renewables and has encouraged me.

So for sure have to give her a shout out. But I also think one thing that's interesting, as I mentioned. When I took the role as the project developer slash origination, there was also someone hired at the same time that I was, and then we ended up splitting into those kind of different, she went full-time project developer and I went full-time originator and her name is Michelle, so she, she, the peer of mine, we started at the same time, but it's been.

An amazing [00:14:00] friendship that I've really appreciated because we're doing different things, but , we've gotten to learn a lot from each other over the years, and she now works at one of my competitors, and I just get to see her thrive and grow and. We've just been really good companions throughout the whole process.

, so I've really appreciated learning from my peers a lot in this industry. , I feel like there was kind of a big cohort of us, , that joined US Solar at a similar time. My partner, Dawson, being one of them, we actually met at US Solar and he now works at another competitor, developer doing also something very different from me.

So it's kind of like I have this group of people that are my peers and we've just been really. Encouraging of each other and finding our own paths, like in the same industry, doing incredibly different things. He's a database admin, like I don't know anything about that. , But we get to feed off each other and learn from each other and, and see each other thrive, [00:15:00] which has been really exciting.

Aparna: That's so cute. Everyone's growing together.

Jillian: Yeah.

Aparna: do actually have a GIS book that I need to bring back from Texas and shift to you guys.

Jillian: He would love that. Loves maps.

Aparna: it's so much fun. I took one

Jillian: Yeah.

Aparna: course in undergrad and I was like, this is my future. Lo and

Jillian: Mm-hmm.

Aparna: but fun side projects.

Jillian: . Yeah. You can always make maps. That's always a thing you can do.

Aparna: Google hates to see us

Jillian: Yeah.

Aparna: So one can make maps in their personal life now based on some job skills. Wondering if there are other ways that work has permeated life in the sense of have you brought sustainability into your life in other small everyday ways?

Jillian: So one thing about my role that can be a little challenging in the sustainability sense is that I am very focused on a lot of very technical energy related regulations and rules, and sometimes I feel like I miss that.

Connection Sometimes I'm like, what am I doing all of this for [00:16:00] and why do I care so much about this regulatory docket that's about interconnection rules? And it feels very removed from the, the mission of, you know, we mentioned the polar bears. , So one thing that I've been really passionate about over the last year is the city of St.

Paul, which has been doing some amazing things in. Variety of different sustainability realms. If you wanna look at a city that's doing fantastic things, Google the St. Paul District Heating System, but they have a climate action advisory board that's made up of community members that are applied and then appointed by the mayor to support the climate action resiliency plan that the city has in place and really focusing on putting a climate.

Justice lens on everything that the city is doing. And so that was a board that I applied for and I'm now the co-chair of with the City of St. Paul. And it's very like, you know, low key. We meet every couple of months. We support making sure that the city is considering [00:17:00] that climate lens , for example, they're gonna redo the major interstate highway that runs through the city.

And so making sure that that review process and the comments that the city council put forth. You know, are taking that lens into account. And that's just been a really helpful way for me to feel like I'm. Connected to the issues in my city and talking to my neighbors and, and talking to people in the community about, , we talked about like the tree canopies in St.

Paul and preserving them because it helps support keeping heating costs down and cooling costs and like just those really like granular things that sometimes I think I can forget when I'm in the macro energy world. So I think my role. Has given me a lot of skills about, you know, just working in general and reading things and thinking through things, and then , to be able to apply that in my community has something that I've really cherished over the last year and hope to continue to do in a variety of different ways in St.

Paul.

Kiersten: A perfect example of like taking a. At [00:18:00] grassroots, right? Like you have your day job and that's super impactful as we've already heard. , But you found another way to also in your downtime, make it more immediate in your community, , and, and continuously be impactful. So that's really inspiring and maybe one of our favorite answers so far to the question of what do you do in your personal life, , regarding sustainability? So listeners, take note. Always, always at the, , local level, there's space for volunteers and, and beyond. on that note, listeners, , we will back after a short break. 

Aparna: [00:00:00] Hey folks, and welcome back to our episode with Jillian. So we've learned a lot about Jill on a personal level, and now we wanna take this to the industry we'll talk solar, we'll talk trends, to get started with our industry talk, Jill, for listeners who might be new to solar, can you break down what distributed generation means?

Jillian: Yes, absolutely. I love that question. Distributed generation can mean a variety of different things and it can be a little bit confusing, but I think the simplest way to think about it is the electricity. World has a few different kind of buckets. You have your transmission system, which are your very large.

Big wires that are running through, you know, fields, you'll kind of see them out. , Generally further away from population centers. We use those transmission lines to send power very far away, but then they'll drop down in voltage, and then you'll see the distribution.

And those are the ones you'll generally see, kind of like along your roadways. , And those [00:01:00] are the lines that . Connect either to another substation or directly into your house and into businesses. So the transmission system is sometimes referred to as the wholesale system, and then distribution is dg and then distributed generation specifically.

Generation that is plugging into that distribution system. So generally your large natural gas plants, coal plants, nuclear plants are big. So they're going to connect to the transmission system and transmit that power to where power is needed. But distributed generation is already kind of in the realm of where that power is needed.

'cause you'll see those lines in cities. In areas of population. Sometimes distributed generation is also referred to as behind the meter. That's where you start to see stuff like rooftop solar or things that are on houses and businesses that are. Generating and then going onto the distribution, but it feeds through a house or through a business first.

[00:02:00] Typically, US Solar develops front of the meter assets, which are connecting directly to the distribution system, so they're not flowing through a house, they're not flowing through a business first.

Kiersten: Thank you so much for the explanation. We do try to cater to all types on the podcast, so it's always good to explain the basics a little bit. , And on that note, , you have many years under your belt now in the industry, but how do you stay up to date because the industry is continuously changing and then answering it as if, you know, maybe someone doesn't.

Have as many years in the industry and they want to get up to speed. What might you recommend and, and what are your go-to resources for that purpose?

Jillian: Yeah, it's a lot of piecing things together. I love listening to podcasts, so that's always a great resource. some of my favorite podcasts include Volts, which does a variety of different energy related. Issue podcasts. Catalyst is another common one, a very specific [00:03:00] renewable finance One is the Currents Podcast by Norton Rose Fulbright, which is,, more so focused on like the financing of renewables, but that can be a really good trends one.

, But there's a variety. And then, , energy Gang. From Wood Mac is also a, a fantastic one. Sometimes they cover more international US Solars, you can tell by the name is primarily focused on United States energy systems. , But sometimes for fun it's good to know what else is going on in the world, but I can at least narrow some of my resources down in that all 50 states is enough for me to cover.

, So I do tend to focus on that. , And then in terms of reading, I mean, honestly, it's. , Utility dive and finding articles that will lead me to a docket that I can then lead more. But it, it's a lot of just research LinkedIn, hoping people post interesting things that I should go and dive down a rabbit hole.

, And then having conversations with people, you know, conferences can be a really good [00:04:00] way to learn what some of my counterparts at other companies , are focusing on. . But I think it's a lot of like hearing something. You know, reading an article that's maybe on the surface level and then having to take that extra step and going down the rabbit hole of links that they put and then just spiraling.

It's like a rubber band ball where you start with the rubber band and then it just keeps adding and adding. That's honestly what I feel like my job is sometimes is I find the, the first rubber band and then I have to add it all back together and then take off the layers that don't matter. Hand the rubber band ball back to my boss and be like, here's what I found.

Hope it's good.

Aparna: Have fun playing with it. Yep. Have you ever used, , constellations website? I use them for, , things every now and again. So out of curiosity,

Constellation Energy, they

Jillian: yeah.

Aparna: good like weekly dive and I feel like they always link utility dive. So the reason I go to

Jillian: Utility dive is them. Yeah. . , There's a few, you know, subscription [00:05:00] based services. RTO Insider is another really good one. , That like if you can get your company to pay for, it's helpful 'cause they do some really good coverage. , Otherwise though, you can generally just see like their headlines for free and that's what I find and then I go try to find the docket or like things like that.

So, , yeah, it's Google searching.

Aparna: Again, Google hates to see us coming. This is the through line with this episode.

Jillian: Yeah.

Kiersten: You mentioned conferences as well. I just wanna ask, are there any that you would shout out in particular?

Jillian: Yeah, this year was pretty light on conferences for me, , particularly because randomly they were all in like the same week of October that I wanted to go to, and that's when we were in Scotland. but , new project media. Which is another like market intelligence platform. They have a really interesting DG focused conference.

, Wood Mac, I think also does a DG focused one. . I also in the past have attended Verge, which is a, I think it was a green tech media [00:06:00] conference. That one also happens in late October. I didn't go this year. It's more broader climate impact, which is really interesting. .

And you get a lot of businesses and solutions oriented people. So that's a fun one to kind of hear what's gonna be the buzzword. Like one year it was additionality and then the next it was emissionality for all of the rec counting. And so, you know, that impacts renewable energy companies. 'cause we need to know how are corporates buying and how are we marketing our projects.

So , that's a good one , to attend as well. 'cause you can kind of get the macro trends,

Aparna: Nice. Thank you much, and I'm sure you have these terms pop up at conferences and in your industry, but some other. Things that we wanted to ask you about industry slang, if you will, are speed to power, value of energy, non wire alternatives, perhaps buzzwords in the past, but could you walk us through what these actually mean in practice and how they change the way we think about energy infrastructure?

Jillian: Yes, the big buzzwords in the [00:07:00] distributed energy space right now. , I feel like I say those a thousand times a day. And really there's a big change in the industry because we're facing such a. Battle to get energy resources online to face the load growth that is expected, as well as facing that load growth and keeping power affordable.

I mean, we just had multiple gubernatorial elections that the major issue was energy affordability, and so there's been a big change in how I think utilities have looked at distributed generation to be a real solution to that load growth problem. And a part of that is the speed to power issue. When you think about building big things, whether that be big renewable plants or big natural gas plants, nuclear plants, those take time.

And a lot of these load forecasts that are in front of us are saying is we don't have time [00:08:00] in order to keep the lights on, we need to get power online. And so distributed generation particularly has a benefit when it comes to this issue of speed to power or getting things online quickly, is that it's generally smaller projects.

Front of the meter projects range from generally our size is like one to 10, sometimes 15 megawatts, just depending on. Where that distribution melds into the transmission. , So it's smaller. , As well as you can locate it closer to where that load is needed. You don't need as much land, , and you don't have to do as much,

permitting, interconnection, all of those timelines tend to get a little bit faster, as long as we have policies that work and support that. So that's a big reason why distributed generation has been growing in a lot of these conversations about how we can face this load growth. , And then how do we appropriately value that?

, You know, this is where that wholesale distribution separation is starting to disappear because. [00:09:00] We're having to rethink about the ways that we compensate distributed energy resources for that value, for the value that they're providing by getting resources closer to where it's needed, getting it online quicker.

, And so that's what that value of distributed energy resources. There's a lot of ongoing conversations in a variety of different states about what it means to be. A distributed energy resource and the value that you should be provided for that, for avoided distribution, transmission, , speed to power, all of those fun things.

And then non wires, alternatives. One of my favorites, , is how can we use distributed generation, particularly battery energy storage. To avoid major distribution and even transmission upgrades by strategically citing these resources to fix the problems. Because transmission and distribution take a very long time and a lot of.

Permitting timelines to get, you know, all of those [00:10:00] upgrades done. And they can be very expensive. So instead of completely replacing a whole distribution line, can we cite a battery at that substation to help even out the power flow throughout the day so that we can take some of that load that would've required a new distribution line.

, So that's been a very interesting thing. There's some non wires, alternatives, discussions happening in Colorado. Where Xcel Energy is considering how they apply this. Philosophy, put out an RFP, try to resource and procure resources to solve these problems. And how does that get valued appropriately?

So all new concepts, you know, it's, it's how do we use a variety of different things to solve problems? 'cause we don't have the time to do all of the solutions and the traditional ways that we've been doing it, which is, let's just build a big natural gas plant. Let's just redo this whole transmission line.

, We don't have the time for that. So , what are our other options? And a lot of those options are on the distribution grid.

Kiersten: Was really well explained, especially in a [00:11:00] podcast format. I'm sure it would be a lot easier if we could give you a blackboard. You could draw some, you know, this is your generation. Here's your transmission. . But that being said, I learned something , and I'm, sure our listeners will as well.

So pushing in that direction of forward future thinking. Are there any emerging trends that excite you?

Jillian: Yes. So the more boring answer, 'cause it's not a super exciting niche trend, but it definitely is the integration of battery energy storage with distributed generation. Because I think there are so many different applications for hybrid projects that I'm learning about on the daily, whether that's peak shaving.

So it's, you know, helping utilities manage. Their peak load so that again, we can avoid costly upgrades. , There are using battery energy storage to store excess solar using oversized on the DC side of the solar system, capturing that battery and then discharging it later in the day [00:12:00] to even out the time of day so we can capture more renewable energy.

It's using it for non wires alternatives. So maybe you're not a hybrid and you're just a DG storage asset and you're helping them manage different power flow issues on their system. So that's definitely something as a company that started just as a solar development firm, and we've now really embraced storage and I get the opportunity to learn about that and all of the various applications .

You know, it's interesting learning, like why energy storage is adopted in various different places across the country and how market rules change that and what the incentives are for that storage. So in, you know, Aparna, hometown, Texas, you've got, ERCOT and the majority of those batteries are being used for arbitrage and they're taking advantage of the large swings and energy prices.

But then in other areas, it's keeping down capacity costs. In MISO and in PJM, [00:13:00] capacity costs skyrocketed in the past few years. And so now more and more customers are thinking about how can we use battery energy storage to increase the capacity, value of our solar resource and save money on not having to procure as much capacity that's expensive in the market.

So how those. Different market rules with ERCOT not having a capacity market. So all of the, values being reflected in those, , locational marginal prices. You're just using the batteries in different ways, but it's all helping hopefully keep all of the costs down for customers so long as the regulations are in place.

And, It's been fascinating to learn about that. And I think you're gonna see more and more distributed solar and storage and distributed storage. Popping up across the country to be really cost effective solutions to a lot of these problems that we're having across the grid.

Aparna: Honestly, excellent news to hear. I was keeping up with the last PJM capacity

Auction.

Aparna: just 'cause I was like, I wonder how that's gonna go. Prices were crazy people

Jillian: were crazy and, and [00:14:00] traditionally distributed systems, , , there were a few pathways to get them into the wholesale market. But with FERC 2222, thats is being implemented across the country. You know, there's more pathways, whether you're gonna be a direct energy participant in PJM and beyond the distribution system, or your utility is creating a tariff program to kind of work through.

And maybe you're like us. Pseudo market participant. , There's just a lot of different pathways opening up to get these resources online, and I think, it's scary seeing those capacity prices, but , it'll be interesting to see how we can use the, the battery energy storage to approach that.

Aparna: Definitely agree. Gotta get some thick skin and then open up your utility dive and see what the heck's going on moving topics just a little bit. We wanted to focus on the listeners. If one of them is listening to this episode and they're saying, you know what I love looking at capacity auctions. I love thinking about , battery, energy storage, and they really wanted to do what you do right now. Are there any skills or certifications that you think are [00:15:00] crucial for them to have?

Jillian: Skills and certifications. You know, the hard part about energy markets is it is changing all of the time. So it is a little bit hard to go to school for a lot of these things because even some of the stuff we learned in our program is already outdated. And so , , I think a lot of it comes down to.

Your willingness to learn and your openness to being okay, being confused sometimes I would say a skill that I've worked really hard over the last few years to develop and I think is what helps me in my role is really a focus on communication because. You could be the smartest person in the room and really understand that super niche market rule.

Ra, like CAISO is a really good example. CAISO is very complicated and few people understand it, but if you can't explain it to someone and make them understand why it matters and how it's gonna impact [00:16:00] what you're doing. that knowledge isn't really helpful. So that's been a, big skill that I've worked on over the last few years is it's, it's not just about understanding the market rules, it's translating it and it's communicating that with people.

And if you're not good at that. You can work on it or you can partner with people who are good at it and can teach you how to do it better. , I have a coworker who's our director of partnerships and she's been instrumental in teaching me about how to adapt my communication styles to various different audiences.

And I think it's drastically changed my success, both internally working with my colleagues to get them to understand why what I'm doing is important and externally as we're working with partners to get them to understand why. Advocating for this market change is important 'cause it's not gonna work if it passes this way.

So I think that's been really eyeopening, particularly in the world of market intelligence is how important communication is. So as much as I'd like to say, go take this course and you'll know it [00:17:00] all. , I wish I had that. , But it's just being able to learn, go through the deep dive, go through the rabbit hole, pick out what's important, and translate that to your coworkers so they know what's important for them to do and how they can act on it.

, That would be my piece of device to work on communicating.

Kiersten: I feel we've had a couple people say that too. So it really speaks to the importance of

Jillian: Yeah.

Kiersten: communicating well. So besides perhaps the mission to save the polar bears, , when you think about your work and your impact, what sort of legacy would you like to leave behind?

Jillian: I would love to see an energy system that. Doesn't see renewables as this separate section of things that are moving forward, but really starts to see. Renewables as just a part of our infrastructure and it's normal. I think that that's getting there, but I still feel like when you think about energy [00:18:00] generation, a lot of people think of natural gas and nuclear and, and coal, and then it's like, oh, and then there's the renewables and they're just kind of being added.

, But it's, really. Cool. Particularly with the addition of battery energy storage to see that no, these are real infrastructure assets that are integral to our success because we can get them online quickly, they're affordable, and then of course they can also help save the polar bears because they're green.

, I think that's why I love working in. The markets side of things where it's like, this just makes cost effective sense to get these resources online and we can build a world and where that's the case. , So I'd love to leave that legacy where it's just like, yeah, solar and wind, they're part of it.

, They're, they're driving piece of our energy system 'cause they're clean and we can make that work.

Aparna: The mental image that just came up was, it's almost like a kid's table maturing and joining the adults because they have ideas, they have perspectives, they know how things could work, and they're here to [00:19:00] talk.

Jillian: . Yeah. I think that we're, as an industry, we were new for, for a long time, and now it's like, no, we're at the big kids table making this stuff happen because. You need us, like the load growth that's happening right now, you need resources online and we can provide those solutions. And I'm seeing that, like I think that that's happening.

, But I'd love to continue that legacy, , and feel like that's , where I've left the industry when it's like , we're not just the big kids table. Were like the adults at the table, you know, carving the Turkey at Thanksgiving dinner.

Aparna: Definitely decision makers for choosing that menu, guys.

Jillian: Yeah.

Aparna: Awesome. So our last question for you is we do love sharing resources with our listeners,

Jillian: Mm-hmm.

Aparna: you've shared a bunch of podcasts and conferences, so wondering if there are any books to add to the list.

Jillian: I've been reading the non-energy related books 'cause I spend all day reading regulations. So yeah, I wish I had some, but no, honestly, I prefer [00:20:00] podcasts now because I just can't take in any more written language by the end of my days.

Aparna: We need our time for scheduled fantasy reading.

Jillian: Exactly. It's, yeah, it gotta have dragons or else I'm not reading it after work.

Kiersten: Jillian, it was such a pleasure having you on. We have spoken to other solar folks before, but it's always so interesting and I think it really reinforces the idea behind the podcast that every industry has so many little niches. , I'm thinking back to to when you talked about your colleagues who now work in different roles, but still the same in. there's been such differentiation despite the same starting point. So thank you so much for sharing your experience and your little niche within Solar. It, like I said, has been super informative and an absolute pleasure to have you on.

Jillian: Thank you so much. This has been great and I look forward to hearing all about the other amazing people you guys get to interview.