25 - Annise Maguire

In this episode, we’re joined by Annise Maguire, an environmental attorney turned sustainability and ESG strategist, to explore a career shaped by environmental justice, global impact, and bold pivots. Annise walks us through her journey from environmental litigation and transactional law to ESG advisory roles across NGOs, Fortune 500 companies, and global law firms, and ultimately to founding GLISS—the Global Incubator for Sustainability Services—after relocating to Paris. We discuss how ESG evolved from a niche concept to a politicized flashpoint, the role of private capital in driving environmental solutions, and why Annise believes connection, community, and well-being are critical to sustaining impact in today’s climate. This conversation is both a candid career roadmap and a thoughtful reflection on resilience, leadership, and creating meaningful change in an increasingly complex world. 

Connect with Annise on LinkedIn. 

Resources:

• We couldn't find the reel about impact of being vegan for 1 day of the week but here is an article about the original research.
• Annise's recipe recommendation

Transcript

[00:00:00] Aparna: Hello Pod people and welcome back. Today we are joined by Anise McGuire on our show. Very excited to have her here. is an environmental attorney turned sustainability and ESG strategist known for guiding organizations through complex risk at the intersection of law, business, and global impact. career spanning international NGOs, fortune 500 companies, and leading in global law firms, she became a trusted advisor on sustainability and ESG well before it entered the mainstream. In 2024, anise relocated to Paris and founded gliss, the global incubator for sustainability services, where she convenes senior leaders for intimate invitation only gatherings. that blend, thoughtful dialogue, reflection, and collaboration to advance resilient values driven climate solutions. just like you chat with all your friends, anise, we're excited to chat with you here. Welcome to the show.

[00:00:59] Annise: Thank you so much.

[00:01:00] Aparna: it almost feels as though you've had multiple successful careers just reading that intro. So we'd love if you could start us off and tell us a bit about your past roles and industries, as well as bit about what led you to these pretty drastic pivots.

[00:01:16] Annise: Absolutely. So I was one of those kids who had pretty like, boring, what do you wanna be a, you know, what do you wanna be when you grow up? Dreamers? I was the kid in elementary school saying I wanted to be a lawyer. And lo and behold, like stuck with that path. , But as, as the good fortune and life experience would have it, I had sort of a four to five year break between undergrad and law school where I worked as a paralegal.

And during that time, had some valuable lessons including. Take control of your career, others will choose for you. And I think from that lesson I learned if I'm going to invest, hundreds of thousands of dollars in student loan debt and then decades focusing on, one particular career path, I better pick something I'm interested in.

And environmental issues had been something. I had always been interested in, curious about, and in the early two thousands I learned about environmental justice in particular, right? So , this is where, environment meets civil rights, human rights. And for me that's the path I wanna go down.

I, I wanna help people and help the environment. In the early two thousands, environmental justice did not exist as a career. You couldn't do that. There had been one executive order with a slight mention under Clinton, but this was pre-Obama. There was nothing in terms of career. And so the closest area for me was I'll do environmental law.

I was still one of the younger fields of law, and I liked the idea of practicing an area that wasn't. Established for, hundreds of years, right? I liked knowing that I didn't have to have gray hair before I could have an impact. I liked the idea of slightly a younger and emerging field of law, and was just fortunate enough that everything lined up for me.

And so finishing law school, I was able to work at an international sort of last semester of law school. I worked at an international environmental human rights focused NGO in Geneva, Switzerland. Right out of law school. I got a job at what at the time was sort of my, my dream out of law school job.

It was a boutique environmental firm. Uh, and working at a place that was just focused on environmental was super exciting for me. I started my career doing, I would say, the more traditional environmental work for lawyers, which. Was litigation and regulatory work. I would say that's the primary amount of opportunities.

Thankfully for me, this firm had a Latin American practice group. And because I had lived in Chile, because I spoke Spanish, I was part of the Latin American practice group. So I got to do a lot of work around environmental issues with colleagues, clients in Latin America and in Spanish. That was the first sort of real legal job I had.

I was there just under three years before I left for a clerkship in the Eastern District of Virginia. So throughout my career, legal career, this was the one sort of, I'd say moment in time when I wasn't exclusively focused on sort of environmental or sustainability issues. And then. After my clerkship, I ended up taking a job that was completely different from anything I imagined I would go into, which was working in big law and doing transactional environmental law.

So I never thought I would be at one of the huge global firms, nor did I even know what transactional environmental law was. as luck would have it, I loved it and I found out as a younger attorney. There was much less hierarchy than existed in litigation, and I got direct client contact.

And so here, , I'm working on deals and these very senior clients, you know, heads of companies, heads,, of finance or calling me and asking me questions if they had something about environmental law because I was the one working on it. And I really liked the ability to engage, interact with them, work with them at a fairly young stage in my career.

And I also realized that. There, there's this really interesting space or was at that time in environmental transactional law where I got to sort of take a stereotype, which is finance. Private equity is just, they go in, they tear things up, they're negative, and I think that was sort of the lens , I had been exposed to before and it's, it's my.

Career and law has always been, we exist in the gray. There's really not much black and white in this world. And so getting to see like, oh, but these entities actually have a lot of money that they can throw. At problems that legally they have no responsibility for, nor do they have to do anything about.

And you would see these big entities come in and because they have the money and it makes sense in the deal for them when they're gonna exit, that they would throw sometimes millions of dollars at an environmental issue to clean it up when they could have avoided it, like entirely legally could have avoided it because it was not caused by them,

it wasn't , posing a current risk to the environment or to human health. They could have sat on it. But it's easier for them. And so you see this area that I wasn't exposed to before and didn't know existed of like, oh, money in the private sector can really move things forward.

Right? And so it was this great window too, into seeing how sometimes , the different lens of like where private sector can step in and fill out. For where there's a gap. , That was the first of what ended up being three jobs in big law.

After my first firm, I took a sabbatical, uh, because I started working, I was 15 years old by this point. I was late thirties. I was just exhausted and I needed a break. So I gifted myself this sabbatical to travel the world. volunteer in different places. It was wonderful. , During this time though, uh, COVID hit and I was in Brazil, then Mexico and I got really bored like a lot of people, right?

There's only so much Netflix you can watch and the gift of being bored instead of. During my active traveling when I was super engaged, learning languages and cultures and customs. When I got bored, I was like, okay, my brain needs something to keep it active. And this was when I really decided, okay, let me just see what the status of.

ESG and sustainability is because when I last departed, it was starting to creep in. It was starting to become a thing you would see a little bit in our environmental diligence, right? Because it was so new that nobody knew what to do with it. So they threw it at the environmental lawyers, 'cause they had the word environmental, ?

. And so you started seeing around, I think 20 15, 20 16 lenders. We're starting to include this in their diligence questions so it was the sort of early, early, when this started getting integrated into firms process.

And I really liked this idea of finance taking a greater ownership and seeing the ways in which it impacted sort of socially and environmentally its operations had impacts. So I started digging into the current status and was really, shocked and pleasantly surprised to discover that, oh, this is now a thing in law, like newly so, but there were firms that, that had listed ESG practice groups and I started seeing job postings and for ESG focused, council.

And then you started seeing, this evolution, which was very exciting for me. And so I decided at that point, instead of continuing just with environmental transactional, I wanted to broaden my lens and. Because I got into law for an interest in environmental justice, which is really that, it is ESG.

It is this connection between, human rights and environment. And ESG is this big spider web. I decided to focus on that and coming out of COVID, the first job I had. Was as an ESG consultant for a Fortune 500 company, was a great experience working with their in-house team.

[00:09:02] Kiersten: So is it fair to say that you got into environmental law based on The as you said, lots of money into a degree, so you wanted to do something you cared about and that was the environment, and then it was COVID.

That was kind of the impetus to move to.

[00:09:14] Annise: Yes. I would say , it was seeing the evolution, right? Because as I'm old enough now that like when I started. Practicing law there were people who did corporate social responsibility was kind of as close as you would get. Right. But

. That's focused more on . How you're treating people, right? That's more of acting and what philanthropy are you doing and how are you engaging with the community? It's quite different from what became ESG .

So I would say it , just didn't exist. And as it started evolving. It just lined up that the opportunities in the legal world came about right around the same time that COVID happened. And then I just had all this time and was bored and was like, okay, I guess it's time to like end this fun adventure around the world and jump back into the, legal market.

And lo and behold, it was the gift of COVID for me was, now these things exist, right? Because we had the perfect mix of this social climate and. It was a very swift ascension where nobody outside of finance in the business committee had heard of ESG,

and then it's everywhere, right? And all of a sudden there's all these opportunities and I just, I would say it was right place, right time because I had been interested and doing things that were tangential as it was developing. Paying attention to when now the opportunities existed.

I was able to jump on and take advantage, which was very exciting for me.

[00:10:33] Aparna: So elaborating a little bit on these opportunities. What we like to do on the show is break things down to very granular, what is a job title, what'd you do? Stuff like that. And I think we've gotten a really good sense of what you did. So,. With those opportunities. What were you called as you're jumping around with law firms, you're doing your sabbatical, you're looking at ESG roles, what are your searches on LinkedIn or whatever the law platforms are ?

[00:10:56] Annise: Yeah, so I know in my career I was an associate, then I was, legal clerk. Then. I went back in and it went up to, by the time I left the first big firm, I was senior associate. I think there it was still exclusively like environmental health and safety senior Associate. Then coming back, IESG consultant. Then I was council in the last two firms I was at, which is in the world of private firms, it's this sandwich layer between associates and between partners, ? And sometimes that's because It could be the track of people who haven't quite made partner yet, or in a lot of cases, especially with environmental, it's for specialists.

So you will often have counsel that are sort of reserved this senior status role of like, okay, you have more expert and we know you've got this. Specialty, , anybody in law who has any sense knows you're never an expert in anything. So you have a specialty in an area that they really need.

And so they'll carve out this. So I was counsel, environmental. think it, the first one, even though I did ESG and then the next one was, council ESG and sustainability advisory practice group. And when I was looking, I think I was just putting in things around ESG, probably just generic searches, right?

'cause this is 2020, so it was probably like, I feel like things have gotten so much, much more sophisticated and specific. But the search terms I used back then that did like result in the job I got at the Fortune 500 company as an ESG consultant. I don't think it would be, now it's probably too generic and nobody's using ESG now.

The only thing faster than the ascension was the fall and the backlash.

[00:12:35] Kiersten: It's Really cool to hear kind of again in people's professional journeys, what was something they were looking for and as you said, was the right place, right time. You had the right experience and the interest, and you were kind of at a pivot anyway, coming off of the sabbatical. And it aligned with the industry versus other people's pivots have come from many things like layoffs or going back to get another degree or just a cool project that was like, wait, I wanna go deeper into this. So thanks for sharing a bit about that. , You'd come from Law to ESG and we haven't quite made it to what you do now, so maybe I'll also. Prompt you with your work at Gliss. So we mentioned in your bio the global incubator for sustainability services is really unique, and I would love for you to tell us a little bit more about kind of the biggest impetus for you to found that. How did you see the, need, and also just a little bit more about what it is.

[00:13:26] Annise: Thanks for asking that. In my last job at mc Law, when I was the most senior attorney , in a dedicated ESG and sustainability practice group, I kind of saw the confluence of what was happening around, right? So ESG and environmental became hyper politicized, ? And so having that label.

Was all of a sudden became associated with and gave a meaning of a very specific political like doctrine that is actually very separate from the worlds of law. I was practicing in, in large firms and representing largely corporate clients where it's, about business risk and mitigation and knowing what you're doing and making.

Decisions that help to mitigate risk in the present and future, take advantage of opportunities. I mean, it's, it still was, it's very much grounded in business, but it lost that and had become so hyper politicized that even discussions with colleagues, became increasingly difficult.

And The reality that in the US there's been such an increasing. Politicization of anything environmental, that there's still robust debate about climate change and its existence and whether humans have an impact on it. I, I think for me, the scientific consensus on that has been so clear for so long that as somebody who has been grounded in the world and background of environmental, it just.

Felt like I was having some of the same conversations over and over instead of doing more work and having more of an impact. And I think I saw myself as being, you know, if I remained in this firm, in the us. Doing this work. I think I, I saw the ceiling is quite low of any positive impact I could continue to have in the future because I only saw the politicization getting worse.

And of course, I think anytime in your career when you decide to take a big leap or a big risk, there are people who will not understand it. And people thought I was crazy, right? You're leaving like a very prestigious, well paid job at a firm that's very globally recognized. To move to Paris, France, when you don't even speak the language.

. France is my fourth language and, I spoke none of it before I moved here, ? I think a lot of people didn't, just didn't understand why I would take that. And for me, I saw it as, sure Europe is not immune to politicization of things, but it is a very different conversation in Europe around environmental social issues as well.

And here, even most of the. right conservative parties. There's still no debate about climate change, ? Certain basic scientific understandings are kind of agreed to by across the political spectrum, so it's very different conversations that you're having around issues here in Europe and post Brexit.

Paris really became the. Center of the EU for business and finance. So I knew there was a lot of opportunity. There's much more international, growing, international community. There's an incredible tech hub here in Paris and, and so for me, this seemed like a place with a lot of great synergies to build something focused around.

Sustainability myself. And as a quick aside for people who were viewing risks and career decisions the firm I was with, the practice group completely dissolved within a year of my leaving That group. It's gone. So that big firm I was with no longer has an ESG and sustainability practice group. So there's really no security, I'd say, especially in this field right now.

But for anybody, so like whether I took the leap or not that job a year later would not have been there. So Gliss when I moved to Paris and when I was envisioning creating my own company, I initially, I'd say the original idea was. Grounded around sort of the skills and services I was already providing and had provided sort of in and adjacent to law.

And I will say, because there was so little actual law. In the US until very, very recently. Much of my time as a lawyer, even doing ESG and sustainability wasn't laws, it was strategic advising. It was still the consulting type work, right? , Even Europe didn't have too many laws around sort of these disclosure mandates and things of that nature until the last few years, and so.

I thought I would set something up, really kind of continuing that work and focusing on strategic advising consulting, and that is still a component, but it didn't take me long being here before I realized that I could offer more, I think, to the global community than that. And what I could offer is I have had an incredible opportunity over my career to work with people and develop really great relationships across the Americas in particular.

And from, and most of my core board, especially the Latin American attorneys. Went from being sort of leading environmental attorneys to some of the leading ESG and sustainability attorneys in their countries.

And. I think post COVID, we all saw this loneliness epidemic and people really wanting and needing to connect. And I think of a sustainability as yourself as well. And you've got to look at and take care of yourself.

And I think that often gets neglected and missed by professionals. But on the professional front, I also saw this need of like. I know so many incredibly brilliant people, why not bring them together? Because in a lot of my professional career growing up, I would attend conferences, and I would say , your traditional conferences tend to be.

Very large with people in your same sectoral bubble. So there's not a lot of engagement, interaction conversation with people who don't work in your sector. So for me, it was going to conferences that were overwhelmingly a bunch of lawyers, and nobody can really be honest and vulnerable.

You can't really share problems or critiques and so the conference circuit became a bit of a rinse and repeat, and you're not really, when you get to a certain point in your career, you're not learning a lot, nor are you walking away with anything that's really a tangible solution, ?

You don't come out of their. Most of the time being like, oh my gosh, now I know how to deal with this problem. And so I wanted to merge all of that and create a space for professionals who work in sustainability globally across. All different sectors to be able to come together and to connect in a meaningful way with their cohorts, with their peers, to find new contacts so that people who are working, on sustainability issues, maybe from the legal side or business side in Uruguay or in Mexico can talk to the person who does impact financing here in France.

And they're talking to somebody who's also in the tech sector. Right? And coming across, people from all these different paths and allowing them the space to come together, to workshop, to have round tables, to have really in-depth meaningful conversations, connections, and really the time to rest and restore.

So sort of thinking of it as a hybrid. Wellness retreat, doing neuroplasticity yoga, adding fun things in there. It's part vacation and there's nature, but also you're gonna meaningfully get to have conversations that you just can't have in settings, ? Because Chatham House rules.

And so it's giving people a forum that. Some of these great WhatsApp groups, the one that Kirsten and I met through and that we're part of, you get little hints of that, but it's , , taking that energy and putting these people in a room and under a roof and giving you a few days to problem solve and chat and get to know one another and connect and that's the intention of blis.

[00:21:04] Aparna: Thank you so much for walking us through that. So the thought process behind starting it to how it's going and . Who you're collaborating with, how you're collaborating, and how you're fostering. for people to feel comfortable talking and sharing their experiences, and two, actually forming meaningful bonds that they can carry with them from these sessions into the rest of their working life.

It's. incredible to see that all laid out for us. And I'm sure the listeners are gonna say the exact same thing you're giving big Anise in Paris Vibes, if I will. It's , December 22nd as we're recording this, and I can't wait to watch the fifth season of Emily in Paris.

[00:21:41] Annise: I have not watched it yet either. Because I know when I start, I'm terrible at Vening. I don't have good self-control, so I'm like, I've got too much going on Pres. I'm hosting for orphans here in Paris. I'm calling my Parisian, orphan holiday Christmas party. So too much to do. It'll have to come after Christmas.

[00:21:58] Aparna: Emily will wait for us all and we'll see. You know what she decides on. No spoilers on this episode, but anyways, we'll chat. So bringing it back to you, your work experience and building off what you've shared with us with Gliss, this experience, it has you coordinating with so many different kinds of people, a lot of top minds in sustainability. So thinking about these top minds, and then also thinking about the listener base that we like to cater to slew of people, ? But if there's someone who's just starting out in the space, they're listening to this, they're saying, wow, that's so cool. How do I learn about this? How do I even get started?

Do you have any advice that you might share with those folks?

[00:22:40] Annise: the one thing I would encourage people. Is to think, do you want a career in law or do you want a career in sustainability? Because I will often have young professionals call me up. And want to, talk and look, I'm a big believer in karma and paying people back and I would cold call people and cold email all of the time when I was a college student, law student and people always picked up the phone.

And so I get emails from all kinds of people and I am always happy to talk to people who are young professionals interested in the next step in their career. And many will reach out and say, I love sustainability. I wanna go into law. I think when people think of a career in law and sustainability, it's probably not what they're thinking.

It's you have far more jobs and far more opportunities actually outside of law in sustainability. I would say if you want to go into law for sustainability. Make sure you want a career in law, ? So that means you, you fully recognize and you familiarize yourself with this is reading, reading, reading.

It's a lot of writing, ? You're probably going to behind a computer a lot. You're going to be, on the litigation side. You're going to spend much of your career when you're younger, you know, sort of prepping depositions that more senior attorneys will do and prepping other people to go to court.

And maybe you get to sit and watch things. But it's a lot of behind the scenes, ? And regulatory work. It's research. It's getting very nitty gritty into reading and writing bills and following things that are going on, and being able to forecast what's the impact of this and who's going to support this.

And then on the transactional side, you're writing contracts. And you're into the minutia of where \ a comma can in the wrong place could be a multi, like a hundred, a million dollar like problem down the road.

? I think it's good to take a step back first and , if you want to be a lawyer, you can certainly do sustainability, but not really in the broad way, ? Everybody I know who does sustainability has a career in it. The attorneys who are leading. The few practice groups that are left that, that call themselves this or focus on it.

We all came up with a specific expertise. ? So I came from a background of environmental law. Many came from a background in securities actually, because you understand how companies work and are formed , and everything behind the scenes there around disclosure.

Or they come from a lot of times labor and employment, and I'd say the good news is that means there's so many different pathways to having this sort of, what we'd say, broad career in sustainability. But I think it's being mindful that.

There's very few legal jobs and very, very few positions that will call themselves, a sustainability lawyer, right? It's really going to be doing some aspect of that, so I think , it's good or bad depending on what you're interested in. To me, it's a lot of paths that can get you there, but it also may not mean.

Doing what you actually think of if you're passionate about a career in sustainability, which can go in many, many different directions. So I just like to caution from the legal side, make sure you wanna be a lawyer because. The amount of debt you have to go into for law school is no joke. And yes, the skill sets can be valuable and can translate for many, many other things, but you will still be carrying 150, $200,000 plus of debt that you have to pay back at some point.

So. Make sure that you don't mind working in something that pays enough to pay that off. And so while I think a legal education can be a great platform for this work, there's also more opportunities outside of law where you can work in sustainability, 

[00:26:18] Kiersten: That's incredibly helpful and really great insight specifically into the type of skills that are needed and what your day-to-day would look like. As someone who once thought she would enjoy environmental law, I have to say, I'm glad that's correction. I took grammar is not my strong suit, so I went into engineering and comment about the comma was very stress and inducing.

I like details but not those details. So listeners ponder that. , We're gonna take a quick break and we'll be right back.

[00:00:00] Kiersten: Alright. Hopefully you all had some fruitful thoughts while we were gone. Welcome back. We're shifting now from talking about Anise in Paris, the professional extraordinaire to Anise as a person who enjoys taking care of the environment and sustainability practices in her daily life. So Anise, what is your favorite thing that you do that you would call a sustainable habit?

[00:00:22] Annise: living in Paris, living in Europe most everybody I know , is wildly sustainable, ? This is a culture here of people ride their bikes. I am not as hardcore , as a lot of the French, I will say, . It doesn't matter how cold and rainy they're on their bikes every day. It's not the degree of Amsterdam.

Amsterdam is like amazing, the Dutcher hardcore. , But people are on their bikes here. We're on foot. You use the public transportation system is absolutely incredible in Paris. And anytime I have friends visiting from the US who constantly went to like grab cabs and Ubers. I'm like, if you look at Google Maps, if you look at the transit timelines, it's going to take you just as long.

Maybe you'll get there five minutes faster as if you took the Metro and it will cost you 10 to 20 times as much. Like literally it will cost you 10 to 20 times as much to take the cab or to take the Uber is to jump in the metro. , So it, it's. Fantastic. My day to day , is, walking and taking the metro pretty much everywhere I go and taking the trains when I leave Paris, , the train system in France is fantastic.

In fact, since moving here now, I guess 14, 15 months ago, I have rented cars twice and that's just been because for my events, , I've had to, , travel to quite a few locations to kind of scout different chateau and event spaces. And Chateau, by nature are castles. So they are in the middle of nowhere.

They, they tend to not be co-located in a city, and some of them are so in the middle of nowhere in the rural parts of France that there is not even a train station nearby. So there have been two trips where, you know, different days I needed to rent a car for part of a day. That's it.

I have not otherwise needed a car at all. So I'd say my day to day. It's just when you realize like when everything is. You know, the infrastructure is there, so it makes it easy and accessible, right? If it's not thinking about it actually makes my life easier than taking a car. Um, beyond that,

I am vegan. , I was raised in meat and potatoes. Missouri. So this is not like family, how I was raised. And I will say I didn't move into it for sustainability reasons, it was health reasons. , . I went to pescatarian and then I was like, oh, I can do mostly vegetarian and then vegan at home, but vegetarian out.

And, and so it was a bit of a process. Um, and, for me, the longer I did it, the more I learned. You know, then it gets hard to ignore the impact, , , that our current, farming practices have, , and how just extraordinarily negative they are for human rights for the farm and labor workers who are made to often suffer abuse, if not trafficked onto these factory farms, to the devastating environmental impacts.

That the factory farms have and the land usage, the fact that it's actually contributing to hunger global, because so much of land is now deforested for soy and corn just to feed cattle and animals that are part of these factory farms. It's not helping even with human hunger. . But on the flip side, that means one little change is a huge impact, right? So diet is super personal. I'm not on the bandwagon that like everybody needs to give up anything.

But I think for me, this is one issue where like even cutting out a little bit of meat, right? Just shifting a little bit to a more plant-based diet, it's like if you're you seeding meat seven days a week, two meals a day, if you take that out one day a week, that really adds up globally.

[00:03:49] Kiersten: I saw a reel the other day. I'll try to link it in the show notes if I can find it again, listeners, it might be lost to the algorithm, but, , she was talking about if everyone in the world went vegan for 20% of the time, like the impact it would make. , And it was really, really interesting. I won't try to quote the facts unless I can find the real, so stay tuned. But as a fun. Part, um, maybe you can share your favorite recipe with us and we can link that for the listeners as a resource in the show notes.

[00:04:14] Annise: Sure. I, I have quite a few. I will say most of mine do not come from me. I was lucky enough. , 20 16, 20 17, Tom Brady, Quarterback and his chef. 'cause if anybody knows much about him, he has one of the most insane diets of any human being on Earth, and it's actually 90% vegan. so his chef paired with one of the at-home food companies, purple Carrot, which is a vegan company, and they did vegan meals for athletes.

So it was higher in fat protein, like good fats, protein, fiber, all of the things that you really need to feel like satisfied and to enjoy. And I'm a foodie at heart. Literally traveled to countries around the world just to eat for a couple of days. And so for me, flavor and creativity and transforming food is an absolute must.

That was what made me realize I could actually do vegan food because it was so creative and good. So I will, I will share a recipe that is not of my creation, but is from one of theirs. So it'll be delicious, protein packed and, and quite easy to replicate.

[00:05:16] Aparna: . I did not know that about Tom Brady. So very exciting and honestly pretty counter. So thanks for myth busting here with us on the show. you mentioned travel and how you're able to , see what people around the world do as well. And I did wanna ask, where did you live in Chile, out of curiosity?

[00:05:35] Annise: I was in Santiago.

[00:05:36] Aparna: Okay. I was in Santiago as well for a summer. It was this research exchange that I had and honestly fantastic experience. Similar to you learned Spanish there. I was fluent in French, forgot that, picked up the Spanish, and I was like, you know what?

It fits the vibe , I'm happy here.

[00:05:51] Annise: I love it. Love it.

[00:05:53] Aparna: yeah, it was so much fun.

[00:05:55] Kiersten: You've given us so much to think about. I think we could probably talk to you all day about all of these different. Aspects of and environmental justice and what that means for workforce and diet and you know, all of that on top of, where we started, which was law, and then through ESG, a little bit of entrepreneurship and connecting people. Um, so this might be a tough ask, but our final question for you is if you had to summarize your legacy that you wanna leave behind in just one sentence, and I know it'll be tricky 'cause you've done so much, but what would you, in one sentence say you'd like your legacy to be?

[00:06:31] Annise: I would love.

Positive impact, right? Two words in small or big ways, right? If I can have the opportunity through anything I've done in the past or through gliss to help connect wonderful people , with other wonderful people and to help foster the sense of, of camaraderie. Because I know so many people in this field right now are just under assault and have been under assault.

, If you haven't lost your job, you probably have a friend who's lost his or her job and who's probably seen their entire, you know, division of a company get fired. And it's very disheartening and , I think in the US especially, it can feel like nobody cares and what's the point?

, You step outside globally. It's like there is some momentum and if I can just help people connect and be reminded that like this matters. It is important. It is the future economy. That is where we are moving. That is where the rest of the world is moving. Brilliant if those people connect with one another and then go from there and build businesses from there and work together even better, right? All the, the ripple waves that can come from that, but I, I think in two words, it's just having positive impact.

[00:07:38] Aparna: Anise. brings us to the end of our time together and thank you so, so much for. Your insights, your explanations, really just sharing how you think about things.

You are an exceptional connector of people and really are setting such a good example of how to bring minds together towards a shared goal. This is something that we're trying to do through the podcast as well, and. Seeing how successful you've been in doing this, it's a beautiful example of what we're trying to strive towards. With that, thank you again. And, , enjoy this episode Listeners.

[00:08:09] Annise: Thank you so much ladies. I appreciate it.